The Forward Agenda for a Christian in the post-modern world

There is much written today about a new way of being a Christian in the post-modern era. If modernism has been bad for Christianity why are so many looking forward instead of back? Medieval monastics, Celtic missionaries, and reformers are all from a pre-modern world. We can learn a lot from all quarters of the historic church (although liberals would say watch you do not become too conservative and conservatives would probably say watch you do not become too liberal). As we step into the future do we always need to look back? We can reach back, look and listen, but we can then, in an escapism way look to an imaginary golden age – is this unfaithful to Christ (........ with you until the ends of the earth)?
Our world needs pointers/missionaries for those people of the modern world who are entering the post-modern era. Those pointers will need to be rooted and strong – more powerful than the modern or post-modern culture. They will need to be as passionate as those of the past, be it Eastern Orthodox, pre-Protestant, post Reformation, Liberal, Conservative or Pentecostal – a person who encapsulates all of Christ without loss to any of His theology! (It's more than being ecumenical). Can that person seek to have and use the combined best of the six traditions of the Christian faith, Contemplative, Holiness, Charismatic, Social Justice, Evangelical and Incarnational, without others looking for labels, and deal with the scepticism from within the current church make-up!?

Of course some will see it as pig-headed, eccentric, unbridled, even cavaliering but I suppose many can be misunderstood and have been, including Jesus. All the more reason that the pointer needs to be rooted in Christ. I await with expectancy for some to push their heads above the crowd and point to Jesus Christ and communicate Him to a culture – post-modern. Many are considering it!

rediscovery?...the emerging thing in Church

In Dallas Willard's book "The Divine Conspiracy" he notices that on examination of local gatherings of Christian believers .... it seems a general law of social and historical development, that institutions tend to distort and destroy the central function that brought it into existence.

Clyde Reid, in his law of religious evasion, states "we structure our churches and maintain them, so as to shield us from God, and to protect us from genuine religious experience".

Adult members of Churches today, rarely raise serious religious questions for fear of revealing their doubts, or being thought of as strange. There is a conspiracy of silence on religious matters in the Church. This conspiracy covers up the fact that Churches do not change lives or influence conduct to any appreciable degree. It was the case, in the 18th and 19th century and still is the case in the 20th and 21st.





The 17th century James Morison, on his way to preach at Cabrach, read Charles Finney's "Revivals of Religion". Moved by what he read, he put to one side his sermon notes prepared and preached from the heart. As we look to the Church in Scotland, it is dogged with separations, why so many? Is it really due to a particular doctrine or theology or is it something else? We, after some separations from the Church, because of State Intervention or of Church government or of the use of Communion or Church practise, may be of no real consequence.
I am convinced that the difficulties of the Church in Scotland, no matter what denomination is one of trust. If the Church is to revive the nation, it needs to be prayerful – yes, it needs to be:
encompassing
it needs to be alive
it needs to be accommodating

This means that it cannot afford to have Victorian methods, or indeed Victorian double values.




Those who rediscovered truth were people who were back searching in the Word of God and praying. They were not reviewing Confessions of Faith, or Constitutions, or Covenants. It is a recurring observation that when there is a moving of God's Spirit in His people, they are moved back to reading the Word of God and not a secondary document, Creed or Catechism.

Conference Renovare...

Christopher Green from Dallas Texas just sent up a note from a recent Renovare conference. I could have joined in with his sentiment regarding those folks.

re awakening III

In an age where doctrine and understanding had primarily been handed over or handed down through Divinity Colleges, questioning the stance of the establishment was seen as weak faith or ungodly. Irwing, Erskine and Campbell, continued to debate the person of Christ, the nature and scope of Atonement, election and eternal punishment, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is evident that many churchmen seeking the closer spiritual life saw something in Irwing that appealed to them, yet their education and influence did not allow them to enter in.
Around 50 people were meeting in Henry Drummond's house at Albury, to study the prophetic books of the Bible. Out of these meeting came, in time, the Catholic Apostolic Church. Two things that were in the forefront of concern at these meetings in Albury, were:

• Gifts of the Holy Spirit as seen at Pentecost.

• Expectation of the second Coming, in the near future.

During these years to 1830 "phenomena began to appear in Scotland".
Mary Campbell, an invalid, in Row, Gairloch,Port Glasgow one Sunday in March, of 1830, broke out into speaking in tongues of an unknown language for about an hour. Margaret Macdonald, an acquaintance, was aided to health by her brothers, James and George Macdonald, of Port Glasgow. They wrote to Mary Campbell and the same thing happened to her. Erskine and friends, Robert Story, and Macleod Campbell, Ministers in the Gairloch area, went to check out Mary Campbell's circumstances. Erskine, convinced, for the time being, put to paper "the gifts of the Holy Spirit" at the end of that same year. Erskine, later retracted his conviction that these happenings were identical to those mentioned in the book of Acts. Most interestingly, he did say "I still continue to think, that to anyone whose expectations are formed by, and founded on the declaration of the New Testament, the disappearance of these gifts from the Church, must be a greater difficulty than their reappearance could be". Here we have an acknowledgement of a loss to some of the Christian practice of the New Testament and recognition that it was still required. He concluded more difficult to comprehend the loss of the gifts than the reappearing of them.

re awakening II

1859-1863

Over a four to five year period a spiritual awakening commencing in the Clyde and Glasgow area developed into a work that spread across to the country as far as Aberdeen in the east, and the northern isles. This work followed on in the country after reports of similar things happening in Northern Ireland. By late 1859, prayer meetings were crowded and the movement was moving north as far as Lossiemouth and Wick.
As with the Welsh Revival of 1904 people were influenced by the Spirit in as much as they felt:
Unworthiness concerning personal sin.
A need to remove doubt and to act in faith.
Total surrender to God's Spirit.
A public confession of Christ.
On 22nd August 1860 4,000 people gathered to hear a message addressed by all Churches on the Inshes on the south side of Perth. Earlier that year in Buckie (12 Feb, 1860) 1,500 which is the half the population, attended the Free Church to hear James Turner. Some of the congregation went prostrate, there was an uproar and Turner abandoned the meeting. They adjourned to the United Presbyterian Church to continue.
During one of these meetings two ministers came to investigate the work, they became very interested in the state of a young girl with regard to her posture and voice. Whilst bent down close to her, one of the ministers in acknowledgement to the other minister said “Sir, I must confess this is the work of God”. There are many stories like these of God moving people, including the very young, but somehow unless you are in a particular church circle, one does not hear of those happenings, or of any today.
Revivalists
The period of revivalists is a period of interest to us even more so in these days as you read this brief history.
Robert Murray McCheyne and Andrew Bonar, during their college years came "under the spell of the meteoric message of Edward Irwing before his excesses in doctrine had lead him far away from the beaten track" (whatever that means!).
Irwing had, as with Thomas Erskine and John Macleod Campbell been not far from the debates as they challenged and stretched the Calvinistic views that prevailed. In an era of all things mechanical, steam engines, bridges, and great advancements in construction, perhaps the Christian walk was not a simple tick box check-list, a system or procedure of sorts but something far more.

Acknowledgement for a stalward...

Interesting grave stone in Golspie St Andrews church yard.
The pupils in memory of Thomas Ross - teacher at Doll and for his Christian witness to the pupils.

Awakening

Taking aside the various tours of D L Moody the two main periods of revival associated with Scotland are 1740's and 1859-63.
1740
George Whitefield landed in Leith in July 1741 some three years from going to Georgia to set up schools in the colony. His first preaching engagement in Scotland was Dunfermline at the behest of the Erskines (Secession Church). This was prior to a three weeks of open air meetings.
Whitefield was a convinced Anglican of Calvinistic persuasion. Having descented from the Anglican church to Methodism he had found an supporter and patroness in the Countess of Huntingdon (Selina Hastings ne.Shirley) who was promoting the saving grace for individuals in the higher ranks of society. She funded a college at Trevecca for her preachers and with her own sacrificial giving used her resources to further the work. Her string of churches, in England are Methodist by constitution by way of a trust but Baptist/Congregational in practice, still exist today with some two dozen fellowships. Whitefield was supported by the countess.
Taking aside also, having just arrived in Scotland, the hic-up regarding where he could preach vis a vis Anglican/Presbyterian church of Scotland and Episcopacy /Independent Whitefield had to listen to “brethren” spout forth and found how none of the arguments were agreeable with scripture.
At Stirling, Whitefield was getting frustrated with the circumstances of his opposition and when about to commence preaching discovered Erskine who had invited him to speak, did not stay to hear him. Nevertheless in this situation and in others he continued to preach when and where possible.
Open air meetings, in all weathers, were held to hear the Gospel. In August 1742 some 30,000 people gathered to hear the message and an additional 3,000 sat for Communion.
William McCulloch preached at Cambuslang around the same time and held many meetings to share the message. At the third meeting there were some strange signs among the gathered and some 50 people required counselling. Meetings were increased to daily with people travelling great distances to see and hear.
Some who had experienced the excitement of the time reverted to how they had been before but it is acknowledged that long afterwards the majority of those converted remained and were effective in their community. McCulloch's letter of 1751, some nine years later addressed to Mr Robe, talks clearly of changed persons showing charity, meekness, patience etc, from a past of bad language, drunkenness and a covetous spirit.
Of course George Whitefield was not immune to scorn. The Associate Presbytery in Dunfermline called for a special meeting of fasting and humiliation because of the threat of this “gangrene” which was spreading over the land. The negativity at that time towards George Whitefield took almost 100 years in allowing the true realisation that he was a man of God and instrumental in gaining converts.
This “New” evangelical revivalism was not seen as fitting into the Calvinistic church set up of the stage church or of the secceeders but it was not long before this changed and it crossed many boundaries.
Not only in Cambuslang were ministers recording “a good number of my people, mostly young who have been awakened .....” both Kilsyth and the far north at Easter Ross there were signs of awakening. At Rosskeen between harvest 1742 and the Martimas in 1742 a remarkable revival took place. 36 men and women felt under deep concern, also several boys between the ages of 9 and 15 turned to prayer and talking about godly matters (some of these boys later rose to eminence as Christians in Easter Ross).

Technical problems

I think the technical problems I have had are fixed.

Baptist in Caithness and maybe in Sutherland 1921

Mission Hall Brora




Well done Phil a casual question about Caithness churches made me get out the Baptist in Scotland book 1988 (edited David Bebbington.) and see what Johnston said about Caithness.

Here is the run down...We have wondered was there a work as far down as Brora and Golspie by Baptists?

Phil asks about Caithness With there 3/4 Baptist Churches with one of them being a newer work - Has there been any other Baptist churches/plants in this area that either haven't taken off or no longer in existence?

Phil

Wednesday, 20 September, 2006

I reply

If you mean Caithness then there is Keiss of course the mother, Wick well established ( I think they got the benefit of strong evangelicals at some point who left the establishment.)
Scarfskerry has a history of lay preachers and another "glasite" aspect - only their pastor will administer the communion ( may have changed now).
Thurso has had two attempts one goes back to the aftermath of Haldanes who made it to Orkney. The more recent Thurso Church was constituted in the 80's. I think there were Quasi -Baptist in Castletown off and on. But not affiliated to the Scottish BU. I am not sure about Cannisbay.

Freswick was preaching station and Stroma Church is now closed.

Bearing in mind the Caithness population has almost halved the Baptist are holding their own - so to speak.
So Caithness Churches and constitution dates
Thurso 1905 - 1840:1982
Scarfskerry 1816
Kiess -1750
and Wick - 1806.
with Stroma and Freswick (preaching station)

Now some months back I was looking at the 1921 revival and how it had effected Brora. Was there Baptists working in Sutherland?

23/2/1922-Northern Times
Revival in Wick
"“The revival in Wick is still progressing John Troupe's presence was an additional attraction, He is now almost well after his illness, but still to refrain from much exertion....one of the converts a young man died recently after a short illness,The hymns and prayers also bearing pathetic terms. A solo sung by Miss Lara Rosie was much appreciated."”

In Johnstons contribution about Baptists in Caithness he states that The famous Jock Troup, cooper - cum- revivalist, was married to one of the Blacks of Stirkoke, long assoicated with Wick (Baptist) Church. Jock was an instrument in the 1921 revival in Wick and elsewhere.

The plot thickens was it then Baptists, that moved south to Helmsdale, Brora, Golspie all the way to the seaboard villages in 1921/1922...

Should I have my doubts about David?

David the shepherd wants to impress upon the king that where God has defend David he will do so again when David goes against Goliath who is challenging Gods work.

David foolhardy?
David convinced?
David prepared to face all odds because of the knowledge that God has helped him beat the bear and the lion!

David has his sling and five pebbles ready to do battle and ready even although the brothers or any in the army are not prepared to go forward...in faith!

Now my question is Why five pebbles.?

God will rescue him then would one stone should do or two in case of a miss!

David the confident young man with a different job history comes with five stones.

...Goliath had four sons!

David went prepared. But only one pebble was required!

The passionate church

I want to ask you to consider this aspect again as I feel it is an important matter in the life of a church be it traditional, modern, or emergent.

Mike Breen and Walt Kallestad in their book "The passionate church" highlight the observation of the introvert and the extrovert. But they also highlight the Pioneer and the Settler/developers. They suggest that pioneers are apostles prophets evangelists and settlers teachers and pastors.

The mix in leadership is healthy for on going development.

Pioneers like the stress of a new thing. Settlers are committed to continuity and stability. Its no wonder some church meetings can be fraught if Settlers are pushing one way and Pioneers another. It is important to have both. Pioneers are looking beyond to see what lies ahead. Setters consolidate the “new frontier” created by the pioneers and establish the continued work.
The church needs both Pioneers and Settlers.

Many churches split not on theology but because they don't understand the interplay between Pioneers and Settlers.!

Scotch Baptists

Scotch Baptist
This long gone group of churches disappeared in Scotland after the final lay pastor in Largo died in 1927. Scotch Baptists origins come from the Glas/Sandeman line these churches although not "Baptist" inspired by Glas were heavily influenced in theology, governance and practice. Later some took up the believers baptism stance and felt strongly on the plurality of leadership through elders. These elders preferred to be not taught academically in church ways and theology for ministry. Communion was only celebrated if an elder was present the Glasite principle of unanimity of exclusion of dissenters from the majority was upheld.
Archibald Mclean and Robert Carmichael are noted as the main promoters of the Scotch Baptist tradition. Churches sprang up or took on these Scottish principles in the late 1700's and early 1800's, but division on practice resulted in splits in 1810 and 1834 and in the following years to 1927 the churches disappeared. Other influences by way of "English Baptist" format gained a hold which was more liberal and accommodating. The Scotch Baptist style did move into North England and Wales and pockets of witness are still worshipping but not in Scotland.
Churches were present in Edinburgh at various sites also in Dalkieth, Mussleburgh, Dunferline, Kirkcaldy, Largo, Paisley, Galasheilds, Stobhill, Stirling (1805) Falkirk Glasgow and Newburgh (1808).Despite the closure of these churches in Scotland some of the practices can still be seen in the Scottish Baptist movement of later years.
Robert Carmichael whilst a minister of the general Associated Synod Church was called to give an account of his preaching having been suspended the previous year. His defence which he read out was entitled "The declaration and confession of Robert Carmichael containing and an adherence unto explication of his new principles.
These were:
Christ Kingdom is Spiritual
There is no such thing as a "National Church"
The word of god is central for doctrine and not the confession of faith or catechism
There is no warrant for national covenanting
Church Government i.e. Presbyteries are not instituted by Christ and there is no visible church as such but a society of Christ's disciples, called together by the gospel.
In 1763 Carmichael was debarred for "gross dangerous errors..."
Moving from Coupar Angus to Glasgow he became an elder in the Glasite Church. The following year he is found in Edinburgh and adopting Baptist views moving to London , in 1765 he is baptised by John Gill. He then returned to Edinburgh and baptised those of an independent Church in the waters of the Leith. He later moved to Dundee as an elder before his early death back in Edinburgh.
Archibald Mclean(1733-1812) was a well travelled businessman who's writings also helped spread Glasite and latterly Scotch Baptist theology and practice. He was in printing and book selling. His first church was in 1765. Mclean was very much marked out in Scotland for his stance on believers baptism and promotion which was a step Glas did not reach. He was convinced that scripture had all that was necessary fro church practice and theology. He was influential in the north of England and was in contact with churches in Newcastle, Nottingham, Beverley, Hull, Liverpool and Chester. North Wales Churches were encouraged by J R Jones of Ramoth.
Mclean was a keen evangelist and promoter of the Baptist Missionary Society. He was willing to work along side Andrew Fuller of Soham, Cambridgeshire, an English Baptist of reformed persuasion for the sake of the gospel.
When Newburgh church wanted to observe the lords supper without an elder present Mclean would not accept this practice. Some left the church and as mentioned earlier the churches split 1810 & 1834 never to be resolved. Communion was administered weekly in the churches.
These Scotch Baptist churches of which Carmichael and Mclean undoubtedly helped greatly disappeared over the years. Some churches became churches of Christ who continued the plurality of elders.
In Whyte Causway a church took Scotch Baptist principals in 1852 thereafter there were several splits and in 1855 some left the church to become Church of Christ Pathhead (Campbellites- Alexander Campbell).

Scottish Baptist Union policy for a time was not to promote a new Baptist church in an area where Churches of Christ were working because of their similarities. Finally as we close this section on a long gone church, in 1786 the Scotch Baptists published a selection of Psalms Hymns and Spiritual Songs, no doubt aided by a previous Glasite hymn book.