Why they are leaving the Church ( or have left)

Interesting read about the possiblities of why "the younger generation" are leaving ...or have left the church.


Milleniums ( 18 - 35 approx) why they ARE leaving the church.

Heartland tonight

Title Singer
You are good Unashamed /Travis Cottrell
Say so Moving forward /Free Chapel
You laid aside your Majesty From worship shuffle
I Know my redeemer lives From worship shuffle
Hallelujah Lakeview worship
You choirs of new Jerusalem R u ready Godfrey britill
God of Wonder Mark Byrd
Once again Manna Worship
Grateful (grace) Everlasting God
Alabaster Jar Gateway worship
Good Monsters Jars of Clay


Tuesday the 15 September 2009 at 10.00 p.m. Heartland Radio 97.5 FM playlist.

Batch processing

If I can get back to blogging a bit more frequently then I would want to batch my processing like others. Even in a work situation I would batch process.

1 Do all the telephone calls out in a time block.
2 read the feeds at a block time.
3 Allocate thinking time in a period of time during the week.

Great to be organised?


What other batch processing can be done
Church rotas for all organisations?

Lou Fellingham's second album "Promised land" is out now.
I plan to play a few tracks on Heartland FM in a few weeks.

Sunday night at the Theatre garden

150 came out to the "churches together" service.
A bit tight for set up time but it was a good service. The sing by way of solos and the congregation was tip top. A team approach meant the whole setup was taken down packed and replaced in little time.

Printing to culture change

It is not a simple matter of the church re branding. The changes in culture have been too great for a change in “window display”. Recall the printing press and the education of the community linked to the church. The corresponding requirement for an engaging church in the community that is not a sub-culture but is or changes the culture is clear. This has not to be a liberal or compromising stance but rather relevance rediscovery and in fact more biblically based mission. The “Hillsongs” mega churches might not survive even if they don't ever make an impact in Scotland.
The church needs to be looking at ways to deal with those who want to be submerged in the culture and not seen to be different from others and to the individualists who make a stand on his or hers pet conviction. A tough task. Yet I think there are those being groomed by God for the job.

Is this the nature of the new church?

How many give over this perception?

Moulin Church

Duff was minister here in Moulin Before his international mission work.

Alexander Duff

I never thought some few months ago I would be living in the village that Alexander Duff preached and lived in before his Indian mission work. But here we are in Pitlochry area. So how do you find the church for you when you move to a new area?

Is it doctrine ...? Is it closest to your experience..? Is it catering for the family unit? Is it the church that invites with a warm welcome?

What about worship or should I say Praise accompanied or not modern What ever that means or traditional- what ever that means!

And the leader/pastor is there vision? has the church got behind the work ?

And finally you have to agree there is compromise...

The Church compromises and accepts you the way you are!
That is a sign of the kingdom. Happy hunting.

Prayer for Scotland. Connecting Scotland

12 April 2007

Connecting Scotland is well on its way, having started in Shetland earlier this week in its praying for Scotland campaign.

With 5 rallies under their belt the team need endurance to complete this prayer drive, walk, and move through Scotland to the final rally on the 27 May in Edinburgh.

Connecting Scotland have a really clear vision which is being translated on the ground and will hopefully unite christians throughout Scotland.

Last night the Lairg rally saw people from truely all walks of life and church experience pray, praise and listen to pastor Bert expound :

On John 17 Love one another ...a mesage to the churches in Scotland.

He highlighted

The Church needs to be different.

A need to make every effort with ones brothers in the church.

Call not to waste time.

Unity is not automatic.

Unity is not uniformity.

There is and should be diversity in the Body of Christ.

The Church was urged to maturity.

Mindful of the 50 year old vision and prophetic word from a lady regarding UK revival coming from the North of Scotland. We are nearing that time!

A splendid unifying meeting. Praise God.

Details at Connecting Scotland.

A need to be met!

Sun Lounge project pictures

As you know I am not in the habit of putting round requests, but I thought if some of our contacts and other connections could help - Tim and Ben would be delighted.

Hey Lets further the Kingdom Now.

I have had a communication from a friend who said to me this morning:

Tim said to Brian Robertson in Rogart

Ben, my son, is over at Saltcoats where he graduated from Bible College last autumn. He's stayed on in the Come Back to God Campaign and I'm trying to help him raise £50k or thereabouts urgently to tackle some structural collapse that hit the building. The were blessed with £16k received a couple of weeks ago but the builders have got on well and will need the next £25k instalment next week! They have faith in the Lord's Provision and Will but know too that we are His Hands and must take the necessary actions.

Do you mind having a look at the attached, think/pray if it's any good, and if you're happy sending it on to your Christian networks to seek any support that might be out there?

Any input would be great!

Tim

To see Ben's pictures click here
Add to the comments if you would like me to send a pdf of the work.....

Church new or old...

I had a meeting with someone in Eastbourne last week regarding new churches.

Daniel is looking for leaders to encourage in new church activity. I am sure he will not mind the link as he needs to speak to lots of people.

My question to him was is this a "new style for an old church" or is it "new church" the conclusion was new church. So often we are loking to replicate with a modern feel the old systems of church. The emerging people have got it right - go back to first principles. Seek ye first the kingdom. Then how de we do that where we are in the community and how best will this be developed. It may result in a system or structure of leadership or activity but it needs to be born out of the "seek ye first" bit first.

We had a good conversation that crystalised some of my thinking as well as his.

He coped with the Robertson probe.

I am sure Daniel would be encouraged by your comments and e mails.

Narrow escape

At Rosehall, Sutherland, on the first Sunday after "the Disruption" the people gathered at the usual time in the open air to worship. At the very time they would have been in the local Church of Scotland for worship the roof of the building fell in. No one was hurt but the providence of this is felt and was felt for many years after the event.

Kirkwall Churches get a shake up!

Andrew Jones (tallskinnykiwi) had a lot to handle at Stromness Church last Sunday.

Additional notes and comments as well as the video will help you to understand and perhaps how to deal with future disruptions in your church. End times coming.

Horst Schaffranek has a lot to answer for, another cult.!

Church Union...

Church Unions

It would be unfair to record all the splits in the Church in Scotland without recognising the courageous effort of many to join similar Churches for a continuing future work. The four main headings for Church splits over the 400 years or so could be categorised as follows:
1.State interference with the liberties of the Church.
2.Tyranny exercised in the General Assembly.
Hostile to any enthusiasm that threatened to overpass the bounds of "moderation".
3.Too liberal and narrow interpretation of the Covenant or founding documents.
4.Awakening of democratic spirit in the nation, effecting an enlightenment in political and church freedom.
In 1847 the Secession and Relief Churches joined to become United Presbyterian Church. These 518 Churches had a strong missionary spirit.
The majority of the original Seceders (Auld Lichts) joined the Free Church in 1852 after the satisfaction of the wording in the Act of Declaration passed by that Church. A minority did not enter this Union.
In 1857 there was a strong promotion that the time was right to join both the Free Church and the United Presbyterian Church, however after some ten years this Union was dropped. However, the Reformed Presbyterian Synod who had started talks with these two Churches united with the Free Church in 1876. In 1886 a Bill was introduced to the House of Commons designed to promote the reunion of all Scottish Presbyterian s. Although this did not happen at this point in 1898 we can see some practical working together with a common hymn-book by the Presbyterian Churches of Scotland and Ireland. It was in the previous year that the Congregationalists and Evangelical Union blended two important minor elements of Scottish dissent. The United Free Church created from the Free Church and the United Presbyterian Synod under a tolerant mutual understanding, the basis of which was used subsequently in other Unions, was successfully completed on 31 October 1900. Again a minority failed to be carried in and claimed to be the continuing Free Church (wee Frees). From the turn of the century to 1929 the spirit of the new millennium encouraged Conferences, joint work, which continued during the War and a few "false starts" in Unions were finally rewarded with the Great Union of The Church of Scotland and the United Free Church (although to this day there is still a continuing United Free Church that did not go with the majority into the Great Union.

Church of Scotland
84 Presbyteries approved the Union (1420 votes for, 22 against).

United Free Church
63 Presbyteries approved the Union (1298 votes for, 101 against).

While there was a sense at that time of completeness with the Union and indeed others mentioned, and taking aside the difficulties and healing process of generations that is remarkable that such Unions have taken place. Many long hours and dedication by individuals have played an important part and in some cases to the detriment of the health of these individuals. Whilst even I would not want to see Union for the sake of tying up loose ends there is indeed a long way to go for Scottish Churches to be more effective. In my lifetime two Presbyterian splits creating the Associated Presbyterian Church from the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland and Free Church of Scotland-Continuing out of the Free Church, only shows there is a long way to go.
Other types of Protestant Churches of a Congregational or Methodist nature have many areas that would need satisfying or the laying down of some principles before Union. With the use of the likes of The Evangelical Alliance and ACTS there are many in Churches who want to work together for the sake of the people and their God, rather than the holding up of the "principle". Likewise there are many who would see as a compromise and failure to their forefathers any thought of Union. Many have quoted in meetings or in publications that "persecution is the most likely way that the Scottish Churches would come together as a national (free from State), witness to the community". There are good signs throughout the United Kingdom of joint Church work, sharing of resources, and buildings. Agreeing official terms of reference for Union will take much longer.
The other aspect of Church Union that should not be forgotten or discounted is a work of spiritual revival, which we will look at briefly later. When God's Spirit comes down on a community there is then a special opportunity to catalyze a work and possibly Church Union!
For all the splits in Unions there have been, the desire of those to move forward and capture a more live Church, based on the Bible and New Testament principles is seen as the driving force for change.
Again and again throughout history we see that practice has been distorted or lost e.g. It is ironic that in a Presbyterian or non Presbyterian Independent circle we hear frequently of Bishops, Presbyters, Elders and even Deaconesses, yet in the Church of AD250 below this level of authority there were Sub-Deacons, Acolytes, Exorcists, Readers and Janitors! (I am not aware of many current Acolytes in the Presbyterian or Independent circles, are you?
To Summarise the major unions we have the following:
1842-creation of United and Original Secession Church
1839-Original Burgher Synod joins with Church of Scotland
1847-The Relief Church and the United Secession (new lights) creating The United Presbyterian Church
1876 - Reformed Presbyterian Church, formerly Cameronians joined the Free Church of Scotland.
1896-Congregationalists and the Evangelical Union join together.
1900-United Presbyterian Church and the Free church creating the United Free Church.
1929-United Free Church and Church of Scotland
2000- Congregational Union of Scotland joined United Reformed Church of United Kingdom.

rediscovery?...the emerging thing in Church

In Dallas Willard's book "The Divine Conspiracy" he notices that on examination of local gatherings of Christian believers .... it seems a general law of social and historical development, that institutions tend to distort and destroy the central function that brought it into existence.

Clyde Reid, in his law of religious evasion, states "we structure our churches and maintain them, so as to shield us from God, and to protect us from genuine religious experience".

Adult members of Churches today, rarely raise serious religious questions for fear of revealing their doubts, or being thought of as strange. There is a conspiracy of silence on religious matters in the Church. This conspiracy covers up the fact that Churches do not change lives or influence conduct to any appreciable degree. It was the case, in the 18th and 19th century and still is the case in the 20th and 21st.





The 17th century James Morison, on his way to preach at Cabrach, read Charles Finney's "Revivals of Religion". Moved by what he read, he put to one side his sermon notes prepared and preached from the heart. As we look to the Church in Scotland, it is dogged with separations, why so many? Is it really due to a particular doctrine or theology or is it something else? We, after some separations from the Church, because of State Intervention or of Church government or of the use of Communion or Church practise, may be of no real consequence.
I am convinced that the difficulties of the Church in Scotland, no matter what denomination is one of trust. If the Church is to revive the nation, it needs to be prayerful – yes, it needs to be:
encompassing
it needs to be alive
it needs to be accommodating

This means that it cannot afford to have Victorian methods, or indeed Victorian double values.




Those who rediscovered truth were people who were back searching in the Word of God and praying. They were not reviewing Confessions of Faith, or Constitutions, or Covenants. It is a recurring observation that when there is a moving of God's Spirit in His people, they are moved back to reading the Word of God and not a secondary document, Creed or Catechism.

Awakening

Taking aside the various tours of D L Moody the two main periods of revival associated with Scotland are 1740's and 1859-63.
1740
George Whitefield landed in Leith in July 1741 some three years from going to Georgia to set up schools in the colony. His first preaching engagement in Scotland was Dunfermline at the behest of the Erskines (Secession Church). This was prior to a three weeks of open air meetings.
Whitefield was a convinced Anglican of Calvinistic persuasion. Having descented from the Anglican church to Methodism he had found an supporter and patroness in the Countess of Huntingdon (Selina Hastings ne.Shirley) who was promoting the saving grace for individuals in the higher ranks of society. She funded a college at Trevecca for her preachers and with her own sacrificial giving used her resources to further the work. Her string of churches, in England are Methodist by constitution by way of a trust but Baptist/Congregational in practice, still exist today with some two dozen fellowships. Whitefield was supported by the countess.
Taking aside also, having just arrived in Scotland, the hic-up regarding where he could preach vis a vis Anglican/Presbyterian church of Scotland and Episcopacy /Independent Whitefield had to listen to “brethren” spout forth and found how none of the arguments were agreeable with scripture.
At Stirling, Whitefield was getting frustrated with the circumstances of his opposition and when about to commence preaching discovered Erskine who had invited him to speak, did not stay to hear him. Nevertheless in this situation and in others he continued to preach when and where possible.
Open air meetings, in all weathers, were held to hear the Gospel. In August 1742 some 30,000 people gathered to hear the message and an additional 3,000 sat for Communion.
William McCulloch preached at Cambuslang around the same time and held many meetings to share the message. At the third meeting there were some strange signs among the gathered and some 50 people required counselling. Meetings were increased to daily with people travelling great distances to see and hear.
Some who had experienced the excitement of the time reverted to how they had been before but it is acknowledged that long afterwards the majority of those converted remained and were effective in their community. McCulloch's letter of 1751, some nine years later addressed to Mr Robe, talks clearly of changed persons showing charity, meekness, patience etc, from a past of bad language, drunkenness and a covetous spirit.
Of course George Whitefield was not immune to scorn. The Associate Presbytery in Dunfermline called for a special meeting of fasting and humiliation because of the threat of this “gangrene” which was spreading over the land. The negativity at that time towards George Whitefield took almost 100 years in allowing the true realisation that he was a man of God and instrumental in gaining converts.
This “New” evangelical revivalism was not seen as fitting into the Calvinistic church set up of the stage church or of the secceeders but it was not long before this changed and it crossed many boundaries.
Not only in Cambuslang were ministers recording “a good number of my people, mostly young who have been awakened .....” both Kilsyth and the far north at Easter Ross there were signs of awakening. At Rosskeen between harvest 1742 and the Martimas in 1742 a remarkable revival took place. 36 men and women felt under deep concern, also several boys between the ages of 9 and 15 turned to prayer and talking about godly matters (some of these boys later rose to eminence as Christians in Easter Ross).

The passionate church

I want to ask you to consider this aspect again as I feel it is an important matter in the life of a church be it traditional, modern, or emergent.

Mike Breen and Walt Kallestad in their book "The passionate church" highlight the observation of the introvert and the extrovert. But they also highlight the Pioneer and the Settler/developers. They suggest that pioneers are apostles prophets evangelists and settlers teachers and pastors.

The mix in leadership is healthy for on going development.

Pioneers like the stress of a new thing. Settlers are committed to continuity and stability. Its no wonder some church meetings can be fraught if Settlers are pushing one way and Pioneers another. It is important to have both. Pioneers are looking beyond to see what lies ahead. Setters consolidate the “new frontier” created by the pioneers and establish the continued work.
The church needs both Pioneers and Settlers.

Many churches split not on theology but because they don't understand the interplay between Pioneers and Settlers.!

Other roots of the Scottish church

Berean Church- John Barclay 1734 1798

John Barclay of Fettercairn was from the Church of Scotland and leader of a small connection Congregational in principle in 1772. It was not great in the national context but, it is worthy to mention that in Perth the gathering, Berean Church based on Acts 17 "Mortgaged their meeting place to supply the want of the poor". Churches were also present in Crieff, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Arbroath, Montrose and Brechin.

Today in the USA there are Berean Churches both of Presbyterian and Baptist practice.


Morisonian Church

James Morison of Kilmarnock was a minister of the United Secession Church who made a mark for himself while the country was steeped in Calvinistic theology preaching atonement that was universal. He became more and more Arminian. On trips to America he was warmly welcomed for his new stance against Calvinism. In the church case against him by the USC it transpired that his thoughts and teaching were based on his old professors John Brown and Robert Balmer who tried to protect him. Deposed of his charge in 1842 the 1840,s saw the shaping of his theology against the Calvin stance.
Abstinence from alcohol was one of his rules.
His theology had an effect not only in the USC but also Independents A few similar churches banded together . One such Church was ministered by his father Robert Morison. These churches took the name of the Evangelical Union and with in 50 years there existed 100 churches. Francis Johnstone followed his theology as did William Landels who became a prominent Baptist succeeding Johnstone in Cupar.
The three "universals" for Morison were:
The Universal...
Love of God
atonement
work of the Holy Spirit.
With no specific connection to Erskine, Irving or Macleod Campbell, Morison was an early Revivalist!

Acolytes ...bring them back?

Again and again throughout history we see that practice has been distorted or lost e.g. It is ironic that in a Presbyterian or non Presbyterian Independent circle we hear frequently of Bishops, Presbyters, Elders and even Deaconesses, yet in the Church of AD250 below this level of authority there were Sub-Deacons, Acolytes, Exorcists, Readers and Janitors! (I am not aware of many current Acolytes in the Presbyterian or Independent circles, are you?) Acolyte