Cap outs Lifters and Perth congregationalists

Cap outs, Lifters and Perth congregationalists The Congregational Church in Perth has few written documents on its early history, yet their claim is that some thinking men became Congregationalists as early as 1794. They purchased Paul Street Chapel about that time. Having called the preacher James Garie to their Church in that year, they were forced into a situation which they would have preferred to avoid. Garie wished to make the Chapel a Place of Ease * for those in the Church of Scotland. This was not acceptable to the trustees of the building and, after 18 months, Garie left to take up ministry with the Church of Scotland. This, however, was also unsuccessful. The chapel was put up for sale and was then repurchased by some of the Church and was advertised for use with the "returned Mr Garie and the congregation of Christian people" in 1798. They and the proprietors of the building not Garie, were keen to have an independent church. Garie tried to be admitted to the Church of Scotland but was refused. Shortly before this, in 1790, a schism arose among other Seceders. It was based around the dispensing of the elements at the Lord's Supper. The new group were called "Cap outs" and they built a chapel at Thimblerow. Their numbers reduced quickly, and the building was offered to the Presbytery as a Chapel of Ease. This offer was rejected but the Missionaries (Congregationalists) bought it. (Who are they?) The next minister of the “Garie’s church “was James Colquhoun, minister of the Relief Church Campsie. He had been invited 9 years earlier to minister in Perth at the East (Relief) Church and had declined.  The Church had grown and on “the better of the break-up of the “lifters” in 1793”. This was in connection with the Communion where the lifters required the minister to lift the bread and wine before serving to the congregation. Colquhoun ministered till around October 1801 when he left to take up a dissenting Presbyterian congregation in North Shields. At some point some of the congregation of Colquhoun’s Church (Old friends of Garie!)invite Garie back to Perth. They bought Paul Street. We do not know much about the Congregational church post Garie indeed we do not know where they worshipped but Garie’s friends were able to buy their former building. 1798 the now Garie group worshipping in the former Congregational church now owned by “the friends” join the group in South Street at the tabernacle supported by Robert Haldane.

This period was one of growth for the Congregational Church with many new Churches developing from the work of the Haldane brothers. The Perth Congregational Church has a plate with the inscription "Perth Union Church, 1798", but whether this was the original name or not is unclear. (Uncertainty exists also regarding the matter of the parties who became the "Union"). The title Congregational Church, Perth, was the new name taken in that same year. Shortly before Garie's death he wrote to a prominent lady and in this letter, he stated that "within two weeks back, I have received 17 out of 21 applicants for Church membership. Mostly young people and recently awakened". He added "Last week a young man received his first impressions under a sermon preached by James Haldane, in the mill at Inver". Robert Haldane built a "tabernacle" in South Street, where the Congregational Church met after they sold the Paul Street building around 1799/1800. William Orme, along with two other pastors led the Church for some time until the Haldanes adopted Baptist principles around 1809. The two pastors followed in the way of the Haldanes. Orme and those who did not adopt this new principle on Believers Baptism were evicted by Robert Haldane. The evicted members of the Congregational Church spent a considerable time finding a suitable place in which to worship. By 1810 they were meeting in a hired hall but still wished to build a new chapel. The upper part of a tenement in Canal Crescent became home to them for some time and as numbers grew, they, by 1824, were worshipping in Mill Street. Many years later in 1851, the Mill Street congregation transferred to a new place of worship in Canal Crescent. It closed 21 years later. The year 1855 saw a Morisonian gathering, which at some time met in High Street where Perth Theatre is now situated. They were followers of James Morison of Kilmarnock who was deposed from his place in the United Secession Church by the Synod (New Lights). The reason for this action was that he taught the doctrine of "The Universal love of God" which was shunned by the Church. Unsolved questions 1 Where did the Congregational Church worship before they joined others in the “Union” and after the old friends bought their church? South Street? 2 Was the Congregational Church the same group that bought Thimblerow from Seceders? (the cap-outs) 3 What groups were joined in the Union of 1798? The church had a pewter plate inscribed “Perth Union Chapel 1798” and another “Perth Congregational Church 1798” 4 Is the Perth Union Chapel the Garie group? As we know that the new combined Church was called Perth Congregational Church from 1798.

* Places of Ease were commonplace throughout the country currently. By 1784 there were places in Perth. They were buildings designated for meetings by Christians from different Churches and were originally instigated through the Church of Scotland for the poor and needy. These buildings were used for accommodation as well as for worship.

Peat and Diesel

Peat and Diesel... smile too

What is the connection with Oswald Chambers and Perth Baptist Church?

"My utmost to his highest" is the phrase most quoted from Oswald Chambers  or his linked information on his writing, who died, in 1917 in Cairo. (15 November 1917.)

He had been ministering to soldiers during the War and took appendicitis. Not wanting to take up a bed he delayed treatment but then was forced to have surgery and died within weeks. Having spent several years in America he had previously been a student of Royal Academy of Art and Dunoon Theological College. Prior to this he had studied at The university of Edinburgh. it was at that point he had his second spiritual challenge between a vocation in Art and training for ministry.

In his post studies life he promoted Holiness and the League of Prayer and while he never specifically published he had several writings with some taken in shorthand by his wife "Biddy". She Gertrude Hobbs, shortened to Biddy, would later have these writings published.

It was as a teenager in London that he was awakened in his spiritual life after hearing a famous preacher. His father praying with him on the road home from a preaching time. He was at Ryeland Baptist Church London. Oswald was a man who promoted the life of holiness.

Oswald's mother was Hannah, and his father Clarence Chambers a "stern" Baptist minister.
Oswald was born in Aberdeen in 1874 and spent some of his youth in Perth as his father was the Baptist minister in Perth from 1881 to 1888.

Perth Baptist Church took over the Opera house in 1891 so by that time the Chambers were in London so did not spent time in this Scots baronial style building on the corner of Tay Street and Canal Street when it was a Church.

Opera House then PBC Church 1984 ablaze,

The link from Church to Building seems to be Sir Robert Pullar who was a member of the public hall company, Perth Ltd the entity building the opera house. It opened as an opera house in 1881.

PBC Centre

So there you have it Oswald Chambers was in Perth Baptist Church and his father was the Pastor.!

 

“We tend to use prayer as a last resort, but God wants it to be our first line of defence. We pray when there's nothing else we can do, but God wants us to pray before we do anything at all.

Most of us would prefer, however, to spend our time doing something that will get immediate results. We don't want to wait for God to resolve matters in His good time because His idea of 'good time' is seldom in sync with ours.”  ― Oswald Chambers 

Oswald Chambers 

Perth Baptist Church 

 

Where will the Investment market go now.?

The latest trend this week has been down with a few days of lower prices and indices.
Investors will be asking 
What will happen after the election next Friday?
Will the market pick up before the election during or after?
Will it go up simply because there is a solution no matter who gets in with a majority?

One investment firm recons investors are holding around 43% of funds in cash allowing them the opportunity to buy in to investment in the near future. 

At the end of the day we do not know what could happen. look what happened this week after a Trump speech.

Happy investing if you are able to.

Update on Paperchase

 

I have decided not to go any further with this situation, although I would still wish to see a CEO reply in due course.

There are other things to be involved in at this time.
Thanks for reading and considering actions.

Paperchase reply....and my response so far

Frances

Dear Mr Robertson

Thank you very much for your email letter to Paperchase.

Thank you

But I wrote to the CEO and still await a reply.

We, of course, welcome feedback from our customers and consider all points of view, as such I do appreciate you bringing your feelings on this matter to our attention. We do not wish to cause offence to any of our customers and take a complaint such as yours most seriously. Complaints about our Novelty range - and specifically the more humorous aspect of it - are extremely rare. 

You have caused offence and continue to as you purely acknowledge the complaint and you have not said what action you will take as a company.

I was told that one person on the telephones, they receive at least two complaints a day regarding the inflatable Jesus.  Is there a set pattern of hear the complaint acknowledge and do nothing?

 We do carry a very wide range of product and try to cater for most tastes and, while we do not imagine for one moment that we satisfy everyone, our range certainly has broad appeal.

The particular product you have highlighted, the Inflatable Jesus, was bought to celebrate the season, not to offend in any way; please be assured that we have no intention of trivialising Christian beliefs or teaching.

How does buying an inflatable Jesus celebrate the season.?

Surely this does more than trivialise faith.

If I was selling inflatable toys of your best friend would you like it?

This is a misrepresentation of Jesus. Its mocking.

How would you like it if we used dolls to mock your best friend?

I appreciate you have questioned the decision making process and would like to reassure you that myself, with my Buying team, Duncan, Timothy and Nick are all informed on the range of the products that we sell.

Havent you a real conflict of interest in this matter….that is why I wrote to The CEO .

It would be good to hear what he has to say and what action the company may or may not   take.

Once again please accept our apologies for the offence caused and I sincerely hope you continue to shop with us in the future

I await the CEO reply to specific questions asked>? Regards Brian

Best regards

Frances

and same day

Stacey H (Paperchase) 29 Nov, 15:06 GMT Dear Mr Robertson, Hope you are well and apologies for the delay in responding to you. Firstly, please allow me to extend my sincere thanks for forwarding on your complaint as requested when you called us on the 19th Nov. As advised at the time, full details of your complaint were shared with the appropriate people and a full response will be provided from our product director in due course via email. I would like to take this opportunity to apologise once again for the offence you have been caused but also thank you for the time taken to relay back your thoughts on the matter. Sincere apologies once again.  Kind regards, Stacey Hill Paperchase Customer Services

need to chase Paperchase ...

Paperchase and offensive product

I called last week to Paperchase Perth. I like their products but appreciate there are less for the gentleman. I have bought  several times and tend to look in every time I am in the High Street.

I was surprised to see the following inflatable Jesus on sale. ( seemingly it was on sale last year)

I came home and phoned the company to see if there was some sort of vetting of products before they go on sale. I was advised that the buyers have the say on what is sold.

So I e mailed complaints ---Not that I am in the habit of doing such things.

Its now 7 days since the e mail and apart from a return acknowledgement have heard nothing.

So here is my open letter to the CEO Duncan Gibson

To Duncan Gibson CEO, or Timothy Melgund Deputy Chair or Nick Woods Chair

Paperchase Products Ltd and associated companies

(Via Pete Burns and then E Commerce manager/Director and Stacy Hill)

I have been a regular customer and browser to Paperchase over the years and was shocked when I saw the gifts on offer in the store in Perth Today.

(how I missed them last year I don’t know)

Inflatable Jesus

I found the product known as the inflatable Jesus not funny, bad taste, and offensive.

I wondered currently if your compliance department or some such overseers managed to let the Buyers slip this through and spoil your reputation. What were you thinking?

Would Judith Cash like this product?

Would Timothy’s father have liked it?

I wondered how you would have dealt with complaints for an inflatable Mohammad, or an inflatable Hindu doll or the like for any religious group.

It is not for me to audit your product from research to shop front but I have concerns that this product got to the shelves and no one saw fit to consider the offence it may cause let alone the corporate responsibility and corporate reputational risk in making this product available.

I am not in the habit of complaining and I thought the staff fielding the complaints call did a good job but, I feel the corporate walls have meant I cannot get to you through the line very easily to make my concerns heard direct. This could also mean that the buyers have the final say on the product buying and placing. Is this a good thing? 

 I wonder what Primary Capital Ltd ESG would think about this product?

Please reconsider this product as a sales potential in light of the offence it makes.

A review of products might also help profitability as well.

How many more need to complain before action is taken?

Duncan, I would appreciate your reply in early course.

Regards

Brian Robertson

Perth

If you are likewise unhappy you could say so at the following 

Paperchase contact

The Soul of Scotland

I have come across this book in the Perth Library and although just started I am finding it refreshing and interesting as it tracks some of the ways in Christianity in Scotland.

The Soul of Scotland  by Harry Reid I came across very recently when I was looking for books on Office 365 and Share point. I remember using Share point back in 2002 in the office.

The Soul of Scotland  out in 2016 

I really must get back to sending you some research details like the Balchristies 
and others.

I also last year put up some stuff about  John Glass   which you might want to have a look at.